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#091 - [Tech Tuesday] - MoM Incubators

Hello Friends 👋

We have a fresh episode of Tech Tuesday for you all. This week we have the pleasure of having on the show James Roberts from the UK. He is the CEO of a company called mOm, a startup company dedicated to providing global access to high-quality healthcare. James presented to us his most recent project, the Mom Incubator, which is a battery-operated neonatal incubator. We have been able to collaborate with James and mOm in our efforts to help NICUs in Ukraine. Many of mOm's incubators are already helping countless families in war-stricken Ukraine.

You can find out more about James Roberts and the folks at mOm right here:

Bio: James Roberts is a product designer having obtained a 1st class honours at Loughborough University, UK. In 2014, he was awarded the global Sir James Dyson award for innovation for his project, mOm the inflatable incubator. Since then, he has gone on to be inducted into the Royal Academy of Engineers, named as a MD-DI MedTech rising star as well as one of MITs 35 under 35. To do this, James has built an “a-list team" around him as well as raised more than £5million for mOm. The incubator has now been fully developed, achieved its first clinical use and is now regulated with a CE mark. It is now being deployed throughout the NHS and overseas.


The transcript of today's episode can be found below 👇

Ben 0:54

Welcome. Okay. Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the podcast and to another episode of Tech Tuesday, Daphna, how are you?

Daphna 1:05

I'm doing really well. We've been looking forward to having on this guest for for some time, right. We've been coding for some time.

Ben 1:15

We have the pleasure of having on with us, James Roberts, who is the CEO of mum, a company based out of the UK, which creates incubators that he'll tell us about James, thank you so much for being on the show with us today.

Speaker 3 1:28

Thanks for having me. I've been looking forward to this as well.

Ben 1:31

Yeah, same here. So for the audience, who is who the audience members who are not familiar with mum, and the incubators that you guys are making. Can you tell us a little bit about what are you guys doing? And how are these incubators different from the incubators that you would find in a hospital today?

Speaker 3 1:49

Yeah, I mean, would you like to hear the story about how that came about?

Ben 1:52

Please, actually, actually, I was I was going to ask you the story, because you are your young men. And I was wondering how does someone young and with your background gets interested in this field of incubators and preterm neonates. So that's actually something I'm very interested to hear.

Speaker 3 2:07

I think I look younger than I actually am, which I think is a blessing or a curse. I've just turned 30, which I was, you know, obviously dreading, but I found out that 29 is actually a worse age than the 30. So not much has changed. Yeah, so I'm a I'm a product designer, by background or by training, got the choice of either doing biomedical sciences or design University, started designer at Loughborough University, which is known to be one of the best for that type of sort of type of study in UK if not Europe, is really my first love. As I said, I grew up playing with cars, motorbikes, Lego normal type of stuff. In our final year of study, we are given the brief of design something that solves a problem, which is very open ended brief on purpose. And I watched a documentary that explained that because they lacked this type of medical device around the world, okay, an incubator, they're affecting losing entire generations. I think the the, the documentary was around things, Syrian refugee crisis at the time, and they're explaining how preterm birth went from, you know, 10%, up to 23. And they were getting a huge amount of preterm turn bursts, and they could all well, a lot of them could have been helped by having an incubator that the incubator that was accessible. It was a personal story for me as well, my, my mum in the 1960s was able to access one of the very first incubators in the UK, run by a group of nurses in London at the time, I've got pictures of her in that system as well being taken care of so without one, I wouldn't be here speaking to you today. So it it molded those all those things for me, right, and I guess an interest at a level, which is high school if you guys have biology and biomedical sciences in general. So, really research into what the current issues are with incubators, why they aren't accessible around the world. Why they haven't really been thought about since the 1980s in terms of design and came up with a new idea. That kind of restart research took me about three months really three, figure out what a neonate was, what an incubator was, what needs to be successful.

Unknown Speaker 4:23

You did that all in three months.

Speaker 3 4:25

Well, it was very intense. It was obviously obviously the basics I don't know nearly as much as you both but I know I know basically what I need eight is and that tickle tickle those those problem statements and sat down and couldn't think of an idea. Everyone thinks you have a light bulb moment and it doesn't really happen like that and it takes a lot of research into into a problem. I went onto a cycle Pinterest to try and get some inspiration and came up to a product called the Lucy solar lamp which is an inflatable solar lamp, it collapses down to a small space you can you can take it anywhere and have that kind of aha moment of why don't I make it collapsible or inflatable and then worked on that prototype for six months crystal looks like and it works like model showed off my degree show and got approached by James Dyson steam. So go does the vacuum cleaners. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, he's I don't know. He's familiar. Yeah. Yeah, he's a he's a big deal in the UK. But I don't know about the US.

Ben 5:36

is a big deal. Yes to Yeah.

Speaker 3 5:39

He runs a, he runs a well known award every year, or his foundation does. They asked if I can to, of course, I said yes. And did it and ended up winning the entire thing, which was incredible. Garlic got a lot of attention, maybe a bit too much too soon. got approached by some of the bigger players around the world, asked, asking if they could develop it with me. But they didn't give me the one thing I wanted, which was a guarantee of getting out there. Which I think at the time I was one I was very green. To that probably caused me to be arrogant, almost by accident. So started the company, and just went on creating it and didn't realize that and then realized why they couldn't give me the guarantees after finding out how difficult it was to get a medical device from concept to market. But we've, if we were really started getting going on the company, mid 2016, has taken four or five years to get to the point where it's it's ready. It's actually saving lives now in clinic. So it's being used in for NHS hospitals. We've got our first clinical use the end of last year, which was a huge moment for us. It was kind of when you actually saw that that happened. It was that that release of just wow. It was almost it was all worth it. i It's very hard to put into words.

Ben 7:00

I want to I want to get back to that in a second. I want to get back to that in a second. But I want you to describe a little bit What the What's so special about that incubator before we get into that because I think there's some people listening and saying, What's the big deal. And I think there's a lot of features to the incubator you've designed that we haven't seen before. And then tell us a little bit about the incubator. And then we'll talk about this moment of accomplishment where you actually see it in news helping save some some some person's kid's life.

Speaker 3 7:30

Gregor, great point. For the listeners, it's if you think of a conventional incubator, these massive big, bulky bulky bits of kit that have been thought about as being that since since the outset, right? You have entire Nikki rooms devoted to these these systems. We've taken that out of technology, built it from the ground up to really give a nurse or clinician exactly what they want the very fundamentals of neonatal care in terms of keeping a very tightly controlled, thorough regulated environment, and created a system that can be taken anywhere. So it can be collapsed down to a small space into the size of a suitcase. Very clean, very easy to maintain. It's very simple to use as well. I studied nurses and really watched what they were doing, and found that they have you know, 50 to 100 other devices they have to look after every single day. And just remembering all those buttons must be a bit mind boggling. I mean, I don't know about you, but I get if I go to a friend's house and have a different TV remote to me, I get confused. So I can't I can't imagine what it must be like to have a nurse and have all these different systems they have to use. So we've tried to keep it really simple one button operation, make it very reliable, give everybody what they need to help the baby, you know, not just survive, but thrive. And, you know, I had a anecdotally I had someone quite close to me who'd worked with incubators for a long time that it took them days to get one or two systems into first or second floor Nikki, throughout Europe, whereas I've got one literally sitting here in my, my flat next to me. So it's always fun going to Nicky's and bringing a system anti system of a suitcase. They've never really seen it before. I guess you can think of it as we bring the device to the patient rather than the patient than the patient to the device.

Daphna 9:24

Because you guys have a great video on this. But so tell us how long does it take to set up?

Speaker 3 9:30

I think I've got the record for that in the company at the moment. I can do it in less than a minute and blindfolded. But I've I've done it a lot. It's one of those kinds of things where you watch the video you do it once it might take you a bit of time but after that it just it's easy. And you know the feedback we've got from people who are using these cleaning them as they they love that feature because they can take it apart really get into the nooks and crannies of it and make sure the infection control is absolutely tip top.

Ben 9:57

And so I'm sure you did A lot of research on this. And I think to me what's so what's interesting about the device number one is that you said it's portable, which means that as every nurse and physician knows, it doesn't need to be plugged into the wall. And it could just be transported here and there, which is a major innovation when it comes to this to this device. And and so can you tell us a little bit about how is it powered? How long? How long can it stay on? And And is it the purpose for this to be a transport type of device? Or is it something that can be on for extended periods of time without needing to transfer a baby to an isolette? plugged into the wall?

Speaker 3 10:40

Yeah, so the I would say it's it's not a transport incubator at the moment, it's imagine as opposed to an incubator transport incubators have slightly different regulations that, you know, we'll we'll look to see if we can abide by in the future. But it's a system that's very versatile. So you can have a baby in there for up to a month, it's got all the same. It's gone through the same testing as conventional systems, it meets all those requirements. And sometimes, well, a lot of times, but betters a lot of them as well. But you can take it to put parts of the hospital hospital where it previously wasn't possible to have an incubator. So in the UK, anyway, transitional care. So taking it to close to mother and father, so their child doesn't need to be admitted to NICU just for warming into hospital transport. So being able to take a baby to MRI X ray very, very easily. rural healthcare, Scottish Highlands and Islands where they may not have the systems they need, but they have bad weather every so often, you need to care for these emergency babies. Anywhere that you can't get, you know, can't get to a child easily for hours at a time, you can have one of these systems, just so they can stabilize the child and make sure that it has a much a much better chance at life and a good life in the future. That's what we really offer we we offer flexibility into the into the healthcare system where previously previously there wasn't any in terms of power, because it has that that double layer of air. And some we've had some this new tweaks in terms of software algorithms and how it's constructed. But I think we use between the fifth and the 10th of the energy of conventional system. So that means we can have a battery in there that lasts for a long time it lasts for depending on the ambient, I think at least we have lasting for about an hour. But if depending on the ambience and the set temperatures, it can last for a lot longer than that. And you can plug in different types of power into it. So for us a converter, you can put car batteries, no solar panels that are powered other batteries, those types of things, pretty easily.

Unknown Speaker 12:48

Did you say solar powered?

Speaker 3 12:50

It can was I mean, solar power panels usually charge a battery, right? So you can power the system off of those batteries. You can't directly plug a solar panel into you yet, yet, potentially on in the future. I don't know. I think that might be quite tricky, though.

Daphna 13:10

What I love is you've come up with so many different uses for it really, and really needs in our even most modern hospitals about keeping babies close to their families. And at the same time, I'm really struck about how existential a problem you're solving. Here, let's say in the United States, it major centers, you know, we're talking about, when we talk about moving the needle with our research, it can be for a few percentage points of whatever it is, you know, we're studying. But when we look at neonatal mortality worldwide, you know, the bulk of of babies that are dying, are in locations that just literally don't have access to some of the things that we really take for granted. And so maybe you can tell us about some of that outreach that you guys have been working? Yeah,

Speaker 3 14:13

I mean, we we think that about 75% of the children throughout the world need access, don't have it at the moment. And that was one of the one of the main drivers, especially with the beginning. I thought, okay, my mom had access to one of these in the 1960s. Why is this still such a massive issue? And I'd say a lot of those use cases actually came from coalition's coming to us and wanting to use it for that use case, because they hadn't thought about Okay, what if we had a system that could do this? And that's what what they're doing in the NHS at the moment in the UK. In terms of I think you're getting at the kind of the lower lower to middle income countries where this could be used. Yeah, massive problems throughout the These types of areas, babies that are born at a gestational age that that you or Ben would would think would be fairly simple in order to treat but they're there, they're dying, they're getting, you know, problems throughout their life. That could be solved with simple simple therapies, more simple therapies, such as an incubator, and that the idea is okay, they've got skin to skin, skin to skin is the best, as everyone knows, but the realities of it are, that you have to usually use it in conjunction with a system like an incubator, because it's very hard for a mother or a father to have a baby on their chest the entire day. And sometimes they just can't give enough often enough warmth. There's, there's other things that an incubator is used for. So yeah, in the future, we'd love to get these out to as many places across the world as is humanly possible. It's it, it's got that type of potential, or we think it does anyway, that's quite one of the nice things about healthcare is it. They truly are global problems most of the time.

Ben 16:07

Yeah. And it's, and it's and it's nice for somebody like you in in a developed country to realize that this is a prevalent issue, not in your neck of the woods, but really on a global scale. And it's interesting, when you look at the history of incubators, how when they came into existence, in the late 19th century, like mortality went down dramatically. And it's these interventions that a user we take for granted, that can have the most dramatic impact, and not necessarily, you don't necessarily need a lot of high end technological things. If you can just provide heat nutrition, you will save a large number of babies, I would like you to take us back to what you were describing earlier, which is this moment where you have your first clinical use. And and I'm very interested from your perspective, as, as a designer, as a as as somebody who thought about this in a very technical way, too, then I think I think you always have that in mind, right? That this isn't going to help babies across the globe. But then you see a child being placed in in the device you built? What is that feeling? Like? Is it joy? Are you overwhelmed? I'm just curious as to what goes through your mind.

Speaker 3 17:22

It's a it goes from joy to almost sickening to joy, kind of as almost like a sine wave and right, because you're, I mean, I think for a designer and engineer, it's, it's, it's one of the Ultimates, right, because it literally was a few years back a sketch on my desk. Now here's, here's, here's an idea that I was very lucky enough to, to win a prestigious award for. And then it's, you know, got even luckier by, by people by other people believing in it, and given their time to join join us and and make it happen. I mean, I made to look much better than I am, because we've got a great team around us. It definitely takes a village to to develop these types of things. But but when you get to that moment where it's actually working clinically, and you can say you've sustained a life, it just was this like, I couldn't, I couldn't stop staring at it. And I was quite glad that we're not glad. But there are still mass mandates in the UK, probably probably couldn't see my mouth going a bit crazy, just like this is just a surreal moment. And you have this this massive moment of joy to thinking, Oh, wow, now we're responsible. You know, this, this this device is, you get that that sense of this is why these things are so important. This is why they're so difficult to develop. And the amount of time and care and energy that goes into these things is just phenomenal. That the people who do medical devices, especially engineers, and designers who do it properly, day in day out, really are artists but the the art the art is around one the design, but also that the paperwork that goes into it on the back end, making sure that is absolutely, you know, water tight, because that's what that's what regulators are looking for. And that's what allows you to actually actually help. But yeah, it's a special moment. I've got a I've got a picture of it on my wall, as do most of it. It's one of those things that no one else can take away from me.

Ben 19:27

Right. Right. And I think to your credit, the incubator looks pretty good. I mean, design wise, it's, it's a good looking incubator and having having been around the NICUs there's some some incubators that really are not I mean, I mean, they're not pleasing to the aid. I mean, this is this is a very nice looking incubator, it has some color,

Daphna 19:47

you know, there's a lot of equipment we use in the NICU and the most modern Nikki's where the parents come to bedside and they're like, you're going to use that thing. You're going to use this for my, for my baby, this is what we're using and why Only 22

Speaker 3 20:00

Exactly right, we had a bit when we did have an office, we got a sign up saying, you know, would you put your child in it. And it's important, right? Because the, if something looks like it's been something, it's very obvious when something has been thought of, and well designed, and that kind of processing need to convey to yourselves as clinicians, because, you know, ultimately, we want you guys to use them, but also the parents, they need to be able to trust in the device. And the biggest. The biggest realization I got of that was actually, when I went to Uganda. This is after the award before the company really got going. The person who starred in the documentary that I watched, got in contact with me and said, Do you want to come out to the place, you know, that you've never been before to really experience what it's like? So I went to come Kampala to a hospital called Mulago, which, if you've ever seen a movie called The Last King of Scotland is the hospital in that, in that in that movie, great movie went into one of the neonatal sent into the neonatal center, it was it was pretty. It was definitely an experience, I'll put it that way. Or organized chaos in some ways, but they had 20 systems, most of them are broken. But they were still using them. And they had a, an MDF box inside of the light bulb in. Obviously not great, but would have done more than nothing. And I asked them, you know what, why they weren't using it. And they said because it looks like a coffin. And that's so you got to kind of go gotta get into this mindset of it doesn't matter where you are, it still needs to look like a high quality, quality piece of kit. And that's a big mistake. People use a big mistake. A lot of people have all around the world of no thinking it's just about about about being cheap. It's not it's about being cost effective. You still function over form. Yeah, exactly. You've got a if if someone in the NHS or US health service costs healthcare system won't use it, then no one should use it.

Ben 22:08

Yeah, that's absolutely right. And, and so I'm happy that you bring up Uganda because this is what sort of we wanted, definitely need to focus on towards towards the tail end of this episode, which is, what does the future look like for for mum, and the incubators? What kind of, of partnerships are you looking for? What if somebody is listening to this podcast and saying, Hey, I have a need for this device? Specifically? What does the next step now that the device is is designed? Built? There's been a clinical use and what are the next steps for you?

Speaker 3 22:42

Yeah, we've we've got our C rectory approval. So we were approved on the MDR, which is the well, I guess you can say this is the hardest registry approval you can get in the world at the moment took over the FDA people used to go see first and then FDA, I think it's becoming the other way around now. But we're looking to get our FDA approval relatively soon, we want to go into the US into there's lots of parts of the US where there's there's a lot of potential for a system like this. And we've got some types of some business models in order that can help us access that part of the world in scale. But also, you know, we want to speak to the types of NGOs the organizations that can get us into more the lower lower middle income countries as well how can we develop projects to actually help children babies in in those those areas. That's what we're what we're really looking for. For at the moment, we've got kind of got a jewel, the jewel strategy going on. And ultimately, a lot of that doesn't matter where you are actually NGOs are very good at getting getting products up and running. And then once they're proven governments can can go from all governments private healthcare sense and go on from there. That's in terms of the incubator, but in terms of the company, we're thinking, right, we've we've done, we've been able to develop this this system, which I think in the UK is pretty first and generation that we've got, we've had a new incubator, we've developed the team, the ethos, the the putting the hard work to get something from a sketch all the way to all the way to a product. You know, we want to be able we want to do that, again. We want to be the the smarter healthcare technology for clinicians and parents from the ages of zero to 12 months, you know, how can we take what we've developed with the incubator and bring it into the home so parents can can continue to trust us, we can hopefully make their lives and the most difficult part of a child's life a bit easier. We're starting with the most vulnerable. Very cool.

Daphna 24:49

I know that I have one more question, Ben and I talk about this all the time, right? We're, we're physicians, Ben has a more better engineering mind than I do, but I find that If we have this, we were all working in these silos. And so often our disciplines are not talking to one another. And there are things that like physicians need. And they don't know how to get it because they that's not their area of expertise or interest or design or so how can we have better cross communication between, you know, the different fields so that we can really innovate and keep moving medicine forward? Oh,

Speaker 3 25:31

that's such a good question. It's some, it's, it's really hard. It's something that I know a few dots in the UK are pretty hot on a guy called Neil Neil Patel, who is a consultant for him and helmet debit consultant in his office in Glasgow, Royal Children's, they're very hot on this. And I think I think it all actually comes down to trust. Because you've got a lot of clinicians who have great ideas, but, but some might not know how to turn that into into a product. And don't realize it takes, you know, engineers, designers, you know, fundraisers all of those types of things to to bring it to bring it together. And I mean, I came into the industry from a very, in a strange way. And what I learned quite quickly is that there is sometimes mistrust from around companies in our space. And that, I think that fundamentally, if that was changed, then there would be more collaboration,

Ben 26:37

I think, I think you're you're pointing at something that is such a sensitive issue, and that we are the incubator are really trying to reform which is there is ways to constructively and productively collaborate with more industries, to bring the know how, and the technological advances that have happened in the past 2030 years to the hospital. But like you said, many clinicians hospitals are completely shut down there. There's no discussions can be hard, because potential conflicts of interest and stuff like that, but it's, it's I think, this will be the challenge of our generation, which is how do we rekindle this relationship in a way that is healthy? And that benefits the patients without without? Yeah, so I use gospel to

Speaker 3 27:26

vote ultimately, right? Because I think that's what you've got to keep. That's what it all comes down to? Is, is it good for? Is it good for the patient or not? And if you keep that in the forefront of your mind, then then you should be okay. I think people are gonna vote with their dollar right at the end of the day. Yeah, okay, trust will be the ones who, who get going. I mean, there's a lot of talk around impact investment in our space. And it's, it's not charity, what it means is that it's almost profit with purpose. And in my opinion, in you know, a few years time, decade or however long it impacts investing will just be investing. People are going to demand that the types of investment you have or make do have some type of duty, something good in the world. Because we we've gone through a stage of investing that that didn't have that all the time. And, and yeah, we're in a more of a difficult place at the moment. And you're seeing that with some of the families who are who are helping to run these types of things their their kids are demanding this.

Ben 28:36

The last thing I wanted to talk about is another is another impressive use of of the incubators and how and where mum has been able to make a significant impact, which is situations that arise around the globe, where there's suddenly a need and we've been working together on on creating the connections necessary for for your incubators to to to make their way to Ukraine. And so the war broke breaks out in Ukraine, and suddenly, electricity, which was something people took for granted becomes a rare commodity. And can you tell us a little bit as to how that how did your journey to get incubators to Ukraine? What did it look like and what is the state of affairs right now? How many do you have over there and and what's going on?

Speaker 3 29:21

Now that that was that that has been a crazy part of our our journey? Absolutely insane. Initially, we got contacted by some coalition's in Ukraine saying that they need they needed advice because we were the only ones that could offer a fully fledged incubator that that could could go anywhere. So anecdotally and I can't prove any of this obviously but they they're having issues with you know, nurses have to stay up in NICU and glass being blown out or you know, the the hospital just going all together. I think you know, a number of maternity hospitals have been completely straw and have to be careful what I say. There's videos online about them having to bring babies into coal bunkers, air raid shelters, when you know who should be in incubators, I mean, there's nothing

Ben 30:12

the New York Times covered that very well and showed videos and footage of maternity hospitals with babies wrapped in blankets in the basement out of their incubators during bombings and stuff like that. So I think that's been documented. I don't think you're stepping on any eggshells right there.

Speaker 3 30:25

Yeah. And it's it's a, it's pretty harrowing, actually, especially when you hear the stories about about what is really going on. And a lot of a lot of Ukrainians are staying or staying put a lot of horses gone out of the country, but a lot are staying put and the preterm birth has skyrocketed. So they've lost systems, and they need more than even ones that can give them flexibility in terms of where they go. Ours seems to be the only one that fit the bill. So we got a lot of requests from from the Ukraine, Ukraine Ministry of Health as well, could they get access to some of our systems. So our team who are always up for a challenge, didn't just, you know, get them the systems they needed. But we've also professionally translated or the labels or the videos or the instructions for us, given tech support everything. So we've got a Ukraine version of our system. And I believe we've sent 26 So far under that, and we've got another 25 Going pretty soon. So 50 systems total. And we got some pictures from the coalition's as well actually sharing our that's zone, which was Yeah, another pretty crazy moment. Yeah, we

Ben 31:33

would we would love to share that on social media as well, I think. Yeah, I think you're right, Ukraine was a very interesting situations, because a lot of of pregnant individuals who were there, were saying, I can't go on a journey, where I'm not exactly sure where I'll go, when I'll arrive, because I cannot afford to go into preterm labor on the side of the road, because then that means certain death for my child and probably for me. And so that's what, in many instances forced them to stay put. And, and that's terrifying, because now, then the stress and the situation, the difficulty to access food, like you said, increase the rates of preterm labor. And so then more, it's just such a vicious cycle. So it's fantastic to hear that there's 26 incubators. And I mean, I know from working in global health, you could put more than one baby in an incubator sometimes. And so if you could, if you could, if you could save the lives of, of 2050 infants, it's already it's already phenomenal. So congratulations for that. Yeah. And, yeah, I mean,

Speaker 3 32:37

I obviously can't endorse that. That's, yeah, we know we are at a time.

Ben 32:41

I know, I can say, I mean, we've I mean, it's, it's happened when you're on the field, and you got to use the resources as you can. And so I mean, the impact is is going to be is going to be tremendous. And we're looking, we're very much looking forward to, to what mom is going to continue coming up with. I think what you're saying in terms of rethinking healthcare and how we designed it, and how we utilize it is something that is a huge is a huge issue. So congratulations on mom, congratulations on all your success. And we will live leave some some contact information and some links on the web page of this episode for people to reach out to you. Any James any any parting thoughts?

Speaker 3 33:25

Thank you for everything you guys did as well, because when those requests came in, you know, we, we need some help to put the word out and the incubator podcast did that. Yeah. So I mean, some of those systems going out there definitely was a as a result of you guys. Yeah, we

Ben 33:40

were and we were very humbled.

Speaker 3 33:42

Yeah. It really shows the power of the community, right. Definitely socio, thank you for everything you guys have done as well. Really enjoyed. Uh, yeah, we enjoyed it.

Ben 33:54

Well, thank you. Thank you very much. Definitely. This was fun. And James, keep up the good work.

Speaker 3 34:00

Thank you have a Yeah, have a great rest of the month.

Ben 34:05

Rest of the day. That's exactly right. Yeah, rest

Unknown Speaker 34:07

of the day rest of you. So

Ben 34:12

thank you for listening to the incubator podcast. If you liked this episode, please leave us a review on Apple podcast or the Apple podcast website. You can find other episodes of the show on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google podcasts, or the podcast app of your choice. We would love to hear from you. So feel free to send us questions, comments or suggestions to our email address NICU You can also message the show on Instagram or Twitter, at NICU podcast or through our website at WWW dot d dash This podcast is intended to be purely for entertainment and informational purposes and should not be construed as medical advice. If you have any medical concerns. Please see your primary care professional. Thank you

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