Hello friends 👋

In this conversation, Pascal van Kipnis shares her experience of having triplets in the NICU. She discusses her struggles with infertility and pregnancy, the challenges of a high-risk pregnancy, and the expectations of having preemie babies. Pascal recounts the birth of her triplets and their admission to the NICU. She talks about the separation and recovery process, as well as the difficulties of breastfeeding and feeding challenges. Pascal also shares the setback her son faced with necrotizing enterocolitis and the emotional challenges of isolation. She highlights the importance of advocacy and support in the NICU and the long-term impact of the NICU experience on her family. This conversation explores the challenges and joys of parenting multiple babies. It provides insights into the unique experiences faced by parents of multiples and offers practical advice on managing sleep, self-care, feeding, and bonding. The conversation emphasizes the importance of support systems and reassures parents that they are not alone in their journey.

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Takeaways

Having a baby in the NICU can be an extraordinary and all-encompassing experience for families.

Struggles with infertility and pregnancy can add additional challenges to the NICU journey.

High-risk pregnancies and multiple births often come with expectations of preemie babies and the need for specialized care.

Separation from the babies and the recovery process can be overwhelming for parents.

Breastfeeding and feeding challenges are common in the NICU, and support from lactation consultants is crucial.

Setbacks, such as necrotizing enterocolitis, can occur in the NICU and require additional medical interventions.

Advocacy and support from healthcare professionals are essential for navigating the NICU journey.

The NICU experience can have a long-lasting impact on families, and finding ways to be present and resilient is important. Parenting multiples can be challenging, but it is also a rewarding experience.

Having a strong support system is crucial for parents of multiples.

Managing sleep and self-care is essential for parental well-being.

Feeding and nutrition require careful planning and organization for multiples.

Bonding with each child individually is important for their development.

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Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Background

01:39 Struggles with Infertility and Pregnancy

04:38 High-Risk Pregnancy and Preemie Expectations

06:21 Birth and NICU Admission

08:34 Separation and Recovery

11:21 First Visit to the NICU

12:16 NICU Setting and Room Arrangements

14:02 First Encounter with Ventilator

16:34 Spinal Tap and Medical Decisions

18:11 Feeding Challenges and Breastfeeding

25:42 Setback and Necrotizing Enterocolitis

28:48 IV Lines and Pick Line

31:36 Isolation and Emotional Challenges

35:31 Length of NICU Stay

38:55 Personality Development and Thriving

41:36 Impact of NICU Experience

44:24 Advocacy and Support in the NICU

02:30 Challenges of Parenting Multiple Babies

10:15 Support Systems for Parents of Multiples

20:45 Managing Sleep and Self-Care

30:10 Feeding and Nutrition for Multiples

40:20 Bonding with Each Child

45:35 Closing Remarks

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The transcript of today's episode can be found below 👇

Leah (00:03.504)

Having a baby in the NICU is an extraordinary experience. It can be all encompassing for a family, for friends. Now imagine you have to do that with two babies or maybe three babies. That's the story of our guest today, Pascal van Kipnis, who is an extraordinary human.

She's the mother of four beautiful children. She's a former soloist ballerina with the New York City Ballet. She's the treasurer of Slow Food Miami, doing great things around local and organic farming. And she's also been a NICU mentor with ICU Baby for coming on seven years. This year, we just did the math and oh my goodness, it's been seven years.

Welcome Pascal.

Leah (01:06.476)

We're so glad to have you. Yes. We just had a quick minute here. We were trying to figure out how long you've been with us and supporting NICU families. And it has been seven great lucky years that we've been able to do that. So really glad to have you here to share your story and grace us with your wisdom as well. So walk us to your...

PASCALE (01:07.234)

Thank you.

Leah (01:34.784)

your pregnancies, your experience into motherhood.

PASCALE (01:39.546)

Wow. That was arduous. It was long. It was full of loss and frustration and a lot of grit and determination. Unfortunately, I had a lot of difficulty getting pregnant and then also I had issues chromosomally with my...

eggs when they divided. So I had a long road of miscarriages as well as failed IVF cycles. And I did have my first through IVF and then went for my second and had nothing but failures and again losses. And then ended up with two embryos that were put back and suddenly one decided to split.

and I had three. So I have identical boys and a girl.

Leah (02:42.28)

Wow, this is, yeah, parenthood is real. You know, pregnancy is real. It's not all balloons and roses. You made it to that point. Okay, so you had three babies and then now you're considered high risk, right? If you have multiples or no.

PASCALE (02:53.634)

No, no.

PASCALE (03:03.254)

Right, right. I went from feeling really excited to suddenly having almost a dread because now I knew I was in another form of high risk and probability of not being successful. I obviously did everything I could on my side to have as much of a successful triplet pregnancy as possible and finally things did go my way in the sense of like my body did and it kind of renewed my

my anger towards my body during all this infertility, then to have a successful pregnancy with them was helpful in renewing my strength. And it really did take a lot of strength to get through that pregnancy. And again, some of my background as being a dancer, I think being so much willpower and following a plan and really...

I did a lot of research on how to bring this to fruition because I knew that I wasn't gonna have those final months, weeks, who knew how long to really get those babies as big and healthy as possible because you don't have that weight gaining for the baby stage, which is towards the end. So I had to really go about my pregnancy very differently than a normal pregnancy.

And I knew also that I was gonna have preemies. So I knew it was almost impossible not to have some sort of preemie. That's what they told me. Yeah, yeah. And so...

Leah (04:38.692)

That's what they told you. They had prepared you that way. Okay, and that's your OB or high-risk OB, who was that?

PASCALE (04:45.978)

high-risk OB everybody, but mainly my high-risk OB who was really, you know, getting me through this whole process and being my cheerleader throughout it, she was amazing. But you know, I chose, I went and I like interviewed NICUs and I chose the one that I felt best and the research that I had done. So I had a lot of, luckily, because I had to give up a lot of control.

PASCALE (05:16.11)

I enjoyed the fact that I picked the NICU and that was a huge plus for me. Most people who come into the NICU are not expecting a NICU baby and have not chosen the NICU. And so that gave me an extra sense of security and ability to like, once they were born, to feel very like, a little bit more like at peace. Like they're gonna do what they're gonna do and they're gonna take really good care of my babies.

But it was still overwhelming once they were born.

Leah (05:49.248)

Yeah, so all well-planned plans, then you gave birth. Tell me about that.

PASCALE (05:52.882)

Yes. Yes, I went into labor. I went on a labor on a weekend. It was Easter weekend. I have Easter babies. My name means Easter. So it's very, very interesting that it all came. And yes, all three were C-section, obviously. One of the risks was getting the boys out sort of at the same time because they shared a placenta. And Leia, who is my daughter,

the lowest and on her own and the first to come out, but she had the most complications right away, which was unusual. It kind of went against most of the philosophy. The girl usually does better, usually the first born does better, the individual sack and placenta, but she immediately had breathing issues and was whisked away from me. Like, I don't even, I think I saw her and passed it in for like a second. Um.

Leah (06:48.332)

And how many weeks were they when you like you for a long time? How many weeks?

PASCALE (06:50.59)

They were, yes, there were 34 weeks, which was insane. Yeah. Yeah, and they were all four pounds, 10 ounces. One of the boys was four pounds, I think nine. So really all the same, which was crazy. But yes, a lot of baby. A lot of baby.

Leah (06:58.554)

Wow. That's a lot of baby.

Leah (07:14.616)

Yeah, I mean, it's like 14 pounds of baby or more.

PASCALE (07:18.422)

Yeah, and that big placenta and everything. And the room was so chaotic because that, in some ways I wish I had been put to sleep to a certain degree, but there had to be, I think two nurses per baby. Then there were two neonatologists, is that right? And then there was.

Leah (07:21.401)

Thanks for watching!

Leah (07:42.48)

Mm-hmm, yeah.

PASCALE (07:45.538)

the nurse that was dealing with all the bands, the bands going to me with every baby that was born and then the band going to the baby and making sure everything was right and lined up. And then there were two doctors because they both had to perform the surgery at the same time. And then there was an assistant and then there was obviously an anesthesiologist. So it was, I don't know, 14, 15 people in the room. So it was very chaotic, very chaotic. And it all went by.

really, really fast. The boys were better when they came out. They didn't have any issues with breathing. They just needed a little bit of oxygen, but nothing serious. So it was really Lea that gave us our first scare that she wasn't as ready for breathing in this world.

Leah (08:34.319)

Okay, and so all three of them went to the NICU, yeah?

PASCALE (08:38.666)

Yes, all of them had to go to the NICU no matter what. Leia had to be intubated almost immediately. She was given more surfactant and I believe more steroids. Because even though I had gotten a steroid shot, the boys probably absorbed it all with that big placenta was always my theory. And poor little girl, she never got any of it.

But yeah, so that was the most stressful part of it. And also I had a really, really traumatic recovery. I lost a lot of blood. I went into hypovolemic shock. I was shaking like a crazy person. I just have never shaken that hard in my life. I was holding onto the bars of the bed just, and no one was with me because.

Their dad was kind of dealing with the emergency in the NICU and I was on my own. And it was intense. And that feeling immediately of worrying about yourself, but these three other humans that you just gave birth to, that you have no clue what's going on. So immediately you felt that, oh, it just felt...

Leah (09:43.449)

Yeah.

PASCALE (10:02.93)

so out of control and you know, because at least when they were inside me, I was protecting them and now, you know, I just had to survive really. At least that's how it felt for me.

Leah (10:14.248)

a really vulnerable feeling and the separation too, all at the same time.

PASCALE (10:19.138)

Separation, right, and I had experienced non-separation with my firstborn, and I still to this day remember that moment where she was placed on my chest and just looking at her and just inspecting her and her immediately breastfeeding, and like that was just so magical. I mean, sometimes I watch her driving now and I just see that image of her right in that moment when I had her. So, you know, yeah, you're robbed of that. You don't have that.

when babies are whisked to the NICU. It's, yeah, very different experience. And I couldn't even go visit them on the way to my room. It was just, I was in too bad of a shape and I couldn't even, I couldn't take in more of the stress of what was going on with them. I just had to like, really just take care of myself actually.

Leah (10:52.976)

Thank you.

Leah (10:57.946)

Yeah.

Leah (11:14.484)

Yeah and how long were you, how long was it until you could go see the babies?

PASCALE (11:21.962)

I felt like forever. It probably was only 24 hours, but I couldn't sit up. I kept on, I had such low blood sugar, sorry, blood pressure. I was constantly throwing up every time I would sit up a little bit more. So they had to like keep pushing me a little bit more and pushing me a little more. So I couldn't even get to the point where I could even sit in a, in a chair to go. And they were born at like

10, 30 at night. So it was definitely, I know during the night I was worrying about them, but I also couldn't, like I literally couldn't go. But I believe I got to see them finally about 24 hours later, but it seemed like a lifetime.

Leah (12:06.02)

Yeah, and what kind of setting was the hospital at that time? Was it multiple babies in a unit? Did they have their own room? Tell us a little bit about what the room looks like. Because there's different kinds of NICUs, right?

PASCALE (12:16.41)

Yeah. So right. In South Miami, there are double rooms, even in level three in the highest level and triplet rooms. But Leia needed a little bit more. My girl needed a little bit more one-on-one. So she was in a room by herself and the boys were in a twin room.

So that was nice, at least that, you know, you could just walk into there and see the voice. And Leia was my, you know, was very overwhelming for me when I walked in and to see her on event. And yes, I'm remembering all the beeps and all the crazy noise and her crying and not being able to comfort her, not being able to, I was obviously also scared to touch her. I didn't know all the protocols yet.

the nurses really, you know, helped guide me and what I was able to do and what I could do, but it was confusing, you know, because they can't tell you too much about what's going on and you're kind of lost and that I'm telling you that too down that mouth. And even though like she was healthy in other ways, she was bigger than so many other NICU babies, not that I had ever seen other NICU babies before. Now I have perspective working in the NICU.

Leah (13:37.413)

Right.

PASCALE (13:42.166)

But, you know, they, so it was one room and two in the other. That's the way it was until the end when they were all together. But then that's a whole nother story. One had to go back into level three and isolated. And yeah, that was a whole nother level.

Leah (14:00.676)

So let's back up to that time when you went to see them for the first time. You said you went in to see Leia and you found her with a, at the time, right? Who knows what these words are? When it's new to us, a ventilator. You said it, you sort of paused. I don't know if y'all who are listening could hear the inhale of that breath, of that intensity. What?

PASCALE (14:02.744)

Yep.

Leah (14:28.116)

What was going through your mind, if you can remember? What is the image you have?

PASCALE (14:34.926)

Well, you don't know how serious it is. Again, I had done a lot of reading. So I was in some ways prepared, but nothing really does prepare you for seeing it in living color, like in your own baby. And I think that's something that I say a lot to my mommies is you can prepare all you want. You could even be in this field. And

when it's your child, it's just a totally different thing. So there was a part of me that was like, okay, this was possibly something that could have happened. We knew that was possible to happen, but what is going on? What is actually going on? And will she ever be able to breathe on her own? I mean, you think the worst, obviously. You don't know. You don't have the experience.

Leah (15:27.076)

Mm.

PASCALE (15:32.01)

unless if you've had another NICU baby of going through that, there's just no way, you know? So.

Leah (15:34.756)

Thank you.

PASCALE (15:39.658)

And I remember panicking with her because they didn't know why, you know, her C-reactive protein, which is that marker for inflammation and possible infection and all that stuff was going up and possibly it was just from being intubated and all the tubes and everything like that. But she, they came in and they were like, we need to do a spinal tap because

even though it may not be that a problem, you know, in like a meningitis or something like that, we have to, we have to find out, um, because it will be too late if we just wait and see. And that's a ridiculously hard choice. Um, and again, like you, if I, if I had an ICU baby helper, probably would have been a lot calmer. Um, I know that I didn't feel like I could, I could be there. I could.

that happening to her even though I'm pretty good around medical stuff and just that decision was so difficult like you think of spinal tap is like something for cancer or you know or I just had never really imagined that my baby would had to go through that and in the end everything was fine just yeah

Leah (16:58.252)

What helped you decide? Yeah, sorry. What helped you to ease you in? Before you said what helped you a little bit, what I heard you say was what helped me a little with those first moments was knowing that I might be there. Information helped me. What helped you with this?

PASCALE (17:12.45)

Right, right, but I didn't have, there I didn't have information because you don't prepare for that. And I think that was really just blind trust, to be honest. I mean, I had to just blindly trust them. And I didn't wanna be the decision that said, no, don't do this. And then if a day later she was seriously ill, that in some ways that would be on me.

Leah (17:17.008)

Okay. Great.

PASCALE (17:42.742)

I just, I couldn't, I just tried to look up as much as possible the side effects and what was the risk assessment, right? I mean, I guess that's what we always do, but that's tough to do when you're in that, in that mode. And then you're also worrying about the other two, you know, and this is the triplet multiple thing is that, um, you know, these two boys at the time were doing pretty well, you know, they were just like having bradys.

which is that deceleration of the heart. But in general, I should have been celebrating, how great they were doing. And I wasn't really spending as much time with them because I felt like I needed to really be by Leia’s side. It just hurt me not to be. So immediately you feel torn that multiple thing is that immediately it's so hard to feel.

Leah (18:35.417)

Yeah.

PASCALE (18:39.862)

really scared for one, but happy for another. And sometimes all three of them were doing different things at different times. And that is like feeling like you have multiple personalities, I think, like, I don't know. It's like, oh, over here, I'm feeling this way about this baby, I'm feeling that way about that baby, and I'm feeling that way about that baby. And to be able to like take in, and then, well, forget that.

Leah (19:01.814)

and then yourself.

Leah (19:07.648)

In that moment, you had to put all into the babies, but you were also still recovering from a big old procedure and kind of a tough response to it.

PASCALE (19:12.348)

Yes.

PASCALE (19:18.943)

And I had actually, yes, I'll go back to that because, you know, I think you're right. That's a big part of what happens post these, any, any delivery. But I had to advocate for myself pretty hard. I had unfortunately some experiences where, you know, I don't think they understood also my background as someone who's.

I would get up and leap if I could in the first moment that I was able to stand, you know, I wasn't standing because I literally couldn't breathe. My diaphragm had gotten so stretched from having those big babies that when I would stand up, I couldn't breathe and they were, the doctors were like, Oh, something's wrong with your lungs. And, you know, I did have to do a lot of focus on myself when I wasn't with the babies to

advocate for myself, but also to really take care of myself as much as I could so I could even get myself to the NICU.

Leah (20:21.092)

sure.

Leah (20:24.964)

So were you able to, or were you planning to breastfeed the babies? Because that's another demand on the body.

PASCALE (20:31.598)

Oh yeah, for sure. I had breastfed my first for 18 months. Everything with her had gone, she was a difficult baby in different ways, but breastfeeding was magical for me. I didn't have trouble with it. To me, it was 10 times easier than making a bottle, but that was my experience with her.

Um, here, this was different, you know, here I had to pump and I had, I don't mean, maybe I had done that a few times, you know, just so that I could go out once in a while, but it really wasn't something that I did. So that was new and foreign for me. And, um, and I knew, and I was worried about getting my milk in and having enough for all three of them to, you know, that's tall order. Um, and.

Leah (21:11.576)

Right.

Leah (21:26.788)

Yeah.

PASCALE (21:27.874)

You know, I remember getting a fever when the milk came in, when things started to come down and having that pain and getting worried about the fever, but then being like, no, no. Luckily the lactation consultant was like, no, that's normal. You know, it's just your body making all this amazing gold. Right? But I guess I just hadn't remembered that from my first experience.

maybe because less was going on and it was just sort of like, it wasn't a big deal. And I had a natural birth. And that was the other thing is that my incision did get a little infected and I had to get it burned close. That was kind of gross. Cotterized, yeah, like in a closet somewhere in between like.

Leah (21:59.876)

share.

Leah (22:13.856)

Yeah, cauterized. Sure. Yeah.

PASCALE (22:20.298)

me going to visit the other babies, it was crazy. Cause I didn't have time to go to the OB, and this was already when I was discharged. So yeah, it's a lot to like jungle, obviously, three babies, one at home, a kid at home, and then taking care of yourself, yeah.

Leah (22:26.736)

Sure.

Leah (22:38.156)

Yeah. And were they all able breastfeeding is a full-time job. Were they all able to get breast milk or how was that? How was their path to feeding?

PASCALE (22:43.982)

Okay, so.

PASCALE (22:49.154)

Right. So yes, at first I started right away. They just divided up the colostrum as best as they could for all of them. But the boys immediately had to, the NICU didn't want to not have anything. So they supplemented the boys on formula right away, which was stressful for me, because of course I had hoped to have enough

Leah (22:53.744)

Mm-hmm.

PASCALE (23:18.414)

you know, for three to go around, but that's impossible. And Leia would get the liquid, a little bit more of the liquid gold because, you know, she was still intubated and she was being fed by the tube and she was having some digestion issues. So, you know, she definitely got a good amount of that. But then as my milk came in, I eventually was able to finally like, have the babies on me, have the boys.

until she was extubated, she couldn't obviously, you know, get breast milk or breastfeed. She got breast milk, but didn't breastfeed. So that was obviously magical, but there too, it was kind of overwhelming because they all had touch times around the same time. So then the NICU had to kind of find a way to like make it so that it would be different times so that I could go from one baby to the next baby to the next baby.

Um, and sometimes I could do too. So I did try it. I mean, with the help of our lactation consultant at South Miami, she was. Instrumental and believing in me and you could do this. And, you know, I would football both babies and the football holds and, you know, breastfeed them. Um, and Leia again was always separate also because even once she came off of.

when she was extubated, she had trouble suck, swallow and breathe. She really struggled with coordinating all those things. So feeding her was, they were always a little worried too, because they don't want to have aspiration. That's very dangerous, right?

Leah (25:07.948)

Right, where some of the milk goes into the lungs or something, sure.

PASCALE (25:12.062)

Right, right. So she had to be done individually. And you know what? I think I breastfed her before, but I admit it to you, but I have to say I don't remember. I remember them wanting to lean more towards the bottle. But again, it was mostly breast milk. Then one day I was breastfeeding the boys and then I noticed the next feed.

Leah (25:27.961)

bottle.

PASCALE (25:42.762)

uh, one of the boys, Miles, uh, wouldn't wake up. Like he just wouldn't wake up to feed and, uh, you know, you try everything. You tickle their feet, you unwrap them from their cocoons. And, um, he just wasn't, he was lethargic, you know, and it was scary. Yeah. And, and, um, I remember the nurse looking at me and she's like, well, you know, because we don't really know how much he got.

Leah (25:54.176)

Yeah, and dress them. Yeah.

Leah (26:01.324)

Oh wow, yeah.

PASCALE (26:11.298)

from the breastfeeding, maybe he is like okay and fed and happy and you know, maybe he's fine. Maybe he's just not hungry. But I definitely remember putting him back in his crib because they were now in open bassinets and.

I remember leaving that night going, oh, I don't know, something's not right, you know? And yeah, and boom, like that night they found blood in his stool and they immediately called us in and we come running to the NICU and here you're like, I didn't drive, I did not drive. I don't think I was even driving yet. And...

Leah (26:38.488)

Yeah, your mama instinct was talking to you.

PASCALE (27:02.03)

Um, you know, all the doctors are around him and he's back in an isolette and they're waiting for room to bring, cause he was already in that level two in the big ward. Um, he had stepped down to a lower level, right? And, uh, he was blotchy. He was, he was, he wasn't breathing right. Like he had the, what's it called? Uh, when the respiration goes, you know,

Leah (27:13.604)

Sure, he had stepped down to a lower level of bear. Okay.

PASCALE (27:31.694)

Um, and yeah, no, I mean, he, he was, he wasn't waking up really. He was lethargic and they said he's, you know, he's, he's not in full neck in terms of like, but he had that, that first stage, obviously that caused the bleeding that cause they, they saw it on the X-ray. And so that's when they stopped all feeds and you went NPO, which is nothing by mouth.

Leah (27:58.916)

So they were watching him for NEC, which is necrotizing enterocolitis, right? An infection in the bowel or the intestines. Would you say this was probably your biggest setback that you experienced? Everything was moving forward. The boys were big, you're thinking you're breastfeeding, and all of a sudden, holy mackerel, we're heading back to the highest level of care.

PASCALE (28:07.348)

Hmm.

PASCALE (28:12.13)

For sure. For sure. He f-

What an-

PASCALE (28:21.71)

Correct. And he wasn't even having Brady's anymore. Like he, so he wasn't, so his, his like clock wasn't being reset. In some ways he was like kind of just waiting for his brother to come home. Like he was having the least problems and the other one was having a couple bradys. So that clock kept on getting reset of the 24 hours before he can come home without bradys kind of thing. And so he was like,

Leah (28:28.113)

So he was stable.

PASCALE (28:52.13)

What am I doing here? I could be home and here this happens. So, and this is, you know, this is a little bit of a classic presentation where everything's fine and then boom. They had just moved him up to a higher caloric level. Again, who knows in terms of the formula. So at this point, you know, he completely goes, no food, NPO.

lines, you know, having to get major antibiotics 24 seven, blowing out those lines every day, twice a day. I come in one day and you know, they have a line in his you know, an IV line in his head. And I think like every mother, I think you're never prepared for that. And you think it's the worst thing in the world. And now I try to tell all my mothers, you know,

Leah (29:39.632)

Hmm. Mm-hmm.

PASCALE (29:48.57)

it's one of the best spots but it just is overwhelming it's overwhelming it seems so wrong but it's actually one of the strongest the veins there are stronger but that's pretty much when they said we're kind of out of veins and yeah and

Leah (29:50.88)

Yes.

Leah (30:06.244)

So you're describing that he, like, when you said he blew out the veins, you mean like the IV sort of came out of the vein and they couldn't use that vein anymore. They had to find another one. And they went through kind of all of his body before they went to his head.

PASCALE (30:22.198)

Yeah, so when all those antibiotics are, and the food, right, because they're having to give him TPN, TPN is not, it's not easy on the veins. And so, you know, they always try to go that way first before they suggest a PICC line, for instance. And that's also another very scary moment where they said,

Leah (30:30.5)

the tea, right?

PASCALE (30:48.898)

you know, we're, we're poking and prodding him and, you know, and he's like every day, several times a day. And I was there, you know, and I would watch him suffer during that. And, um, you know, that was another big decision, um, to take on the risk of the PICC line versus him being poked and prodded all the time and possibly not, you know, other, other side effects that could happen there. Um, and so again,

I had to just trust them and he got the pick line and then he was a lot calmer. But the other problem for him and for me was that, he goes back into an isolette, he knew what it was like to breastfeed, he knew touch and hold and kangaroo and all that. And now he was just in this isolette like, crying and crying and crying and, and rooting, you know, that, because he knew what that was. I feel like NICU babies. Yes. I feel like NICU babies before they have that experience. They don't do it. At least I haven't seen it, you know, and he already knew what that was like. And that was really painful, really painful for me. And, and then

Leah (31:55.78)

Right, looking with his mouth or something, yeah.

PASCALE (32:13.974)

The others caught up and were able to be discharged and he was still in the isolette. He was still not even eating yet. So he had to go back once he finally 14 days later, he could start eating again, going through all the like feeds and seeing how he tolerated. And at that point we had him only on breast milk because that was what was recommended by the doctors. So for him, he went on to.

basically only had breast milk for like seven months. And the other one's got a combination.

Leah (32:47.151)

Yeah.

And when he was in the isolette, and that happens usually, we imagine that to happen in the beginning, right? But then you had to do it again towards like the end. Were you able to hold him at all? Or what was happening for you guys then?

PASCALE (33:03.684)

Uh...

PASCALE (33:07.03)

You know, I don't remember really holding him that much outside of the isolate until closer to the end. And I don't know if that was because of the pick line. I have to say my brain can't really remember that. What's seared into my brain is not being able to hold him. And how difficult that was, I think, for him and for me. You know, like, and I would just sit there and put my hands in there and just touch him as much as I could and kept putting the binky in and the pacifier in and just try to hold him that way as best as I could. But it was, I'm not going to lie, I had a really, really hard time and there were times that I almost avoided it. Like I just couldn't, it was really, really hard. Like I

PASCALE (34:05.134)

And at that point too, I was going back and forth from home to the NICU with the other two home because they, you know, and again, there's that thing, right? Where they're, they all got put together in the same bed to take a picture because two were leaving and you're supposed to be so excited. And you are, because it is a milestone that these two are going home, but you know, this other one is not out of the woods and you know, has a long road.

Leah (34:31.193)

Yeah.

Now you have to divide yourself again.

PASCALE (34:35.886)

And now I have to define myself in a totally new way. And then they were being separated from each other, too, which, obviously, they were in separate beds. So they didn't know that yet, maybe, except for the womb. But you do think about that. You do think about that separation of an identical voice. They were really together. And to this day still, I feel like in some ways it's formed that.

Leah (34:39.042)

Right.

Leah (34:58.67)

Yeah.

PASCALE (35:04.534)

that boy, like I feel like he's more of an emotional boy and he's just different, but who knows? Who knows if it was from that or just his personality and, but we got through it. It seemed like a really long road, kind of getting out finally when he was able to eat again and then finally get home where they all were united.

Leah (35:31.088)

How long, ah, how long were they there? 

PASCALE (35:34.574)

So it wasn't, I mean, now when I see these stories and now that I experience them with my families, I'm like, wow, I was really lucky. And in total, I think it was, what, five weeks? That seems like nothing now in comparison to some of the people I support. But for me, it definitely felt like forever. And those I do support, that is even two days. It can feel like so shocking.

Leah (35:57.273)

Yeah.

Leah (36:04.4)

forever.

PASCALE (36:06.67)

because that's not what you also dreamed of and had in your head. You're supposed to have the baby go right to you, right?

Leah (36:13.888)

Yeah, there's a lot of loss, there's a lot of grief of missed opportunities and missed dreams and, or you have to restructure them. And I'm hearing you talking about doing that. It's like changing your perspective around it and having to accept where you are and what's happening and finding a new balance every week or day.

finding new ways to sort of be flexible and resilient along with your babies and showing up for them in these beautiful ways. What was that? Go ahead.

PASCALE (36:46.563)

Yeah.

No, I mean, that's funny. I think back when you say that, obviously, yes, I think I was trying to find a way to do that. And I was trying to, without realizing it, because of the pregnancy being so difficult, I think I already had started to get into that stage of like one day at a time, because I would freak out about all these different milestones that I had to get through that.

In some ways, my specialist sometimes would get me like, as long as you get past 28 weeks, it is a lot. I mean, and it like kind of freaks you out, right? Cause you're like constantly, and I had to just take one day, one week at a time. And little did I know in some ways, I was learning how to do that for the NICU. And then now when I talk to my families, I say that a lot.

And especially with the experience that we've had with COVID and pandemic, it was like, I kind of liken it to that. It's like during the pandemic, you could really make plans because they were probably going to just be canceled or changed and you had to learn to live, right? Day by day. And you even had to teach your kids to do that. And that is in some ways the NICU in a nutshell. It's like, don't make too many plans. You know, and like what we say, we say,

Leah (38:00.088)

Right.

PASCALE (38:15.026)

Enjoy this milestone, enjoy this moment, take that in. It's, you know, it is right here, right now, stay present in that moment. Don't get ahead of yourself, either in fear or even planning. So I think that's one of my main things that I say to my families is just try to take each moment, day, week at a time.

Leah (38:30.957)

Right.

Leah (38:41.56)

Yeah. How old are the triplets now?

PASCALE (38:47.45)

They're 11. Almost 12. Yeah, it's crazy. And they're

Leah (38:49.248)

11, 12 years old. And tell me about their personalities now.

PASCALE (38:55.822)

So the chill baby, the chill baby that was always chill, he's still chill. He's just like, nothing seems to faze him. He just, you know, he was in the NICU and he was kind of like, okay, I'm gonna eat now. Fine, I'll eat now. Oh, now I got to sleep. Sure, I'll sleep. So at least I had one that was like that. And he's still kind of that, you know, he's the guy who comes home, does his homework, gets it done, doesn't procrastinate, you know, and he's just very even-keeled.

Leah (39:14.128)

Hehehe

PASCALE (39:25.018)

His twin brother who did have more of the setbacks, you know, he's a lot more like he was at the NICU. He's feisty and slightly emotional. Oh, and then Leia was immediately, when I walked into the NICU, then the nurse said, wow, this is a feisty one. And I was like, is that a good thing?

And luckily in the NICU, that's actually a really good thing. And that's another thing that I like to pass on, that little nugget of information, because obviously like when Miles, the one that was got sick, got lethargic, that was not a good thing. Whereas the feisty girl, even though she was trying to pull her tubes out, that was a sign that she was not really, really ill. You know? And she's…still the feisty girl, very much. They've kept their personalities almost to a T. But they're all very, I mean, I, again, I got lucky. Their setbacks in the NICU were not setbacks for life for them, and sometimes I don't share, you know, that information because everybody's journey obviously is different.

Leah (40:26.273)

Yeah.

PASCALE (40:52.386)

But it is a possibility, right? And I want people to know that. And that every milestone, even throughout their lives, have been something that I've really tried to still be in awe of and take in. And yeah, they're thriving, 100%.

Leah (41:16.692)

Wow, it's so incredible for you to share all of these stories. I mean, we could talk for days. And we're so grateful that you could bring all of this to us. And it sounds to me like you're the NICU changed you a little bit. Would you agree with that?

PASCALE (41:36.802)

for sure. I mean, it not only changed me.

PASCALE (41:42.726)

It changed my life because also you came into my life and then I was able to use what I had gone through to help others. And to me, that's been life changing for me. I think it is a very lonely time. It is a very, even though...you're surrounded by other families, you know are in those rooms. And even in the big ward room, you know all these other families are going through it, but you're not usually talking to them. You're not, you know, you don't know them. And it's, it would have been really nice to have had more of that understanding of what you're going through and that you're not alone. And that...you can get through this and you will.

Leah (42:42.355)

Wow. You've given us so many pearls of wisdom. Is there anything that you wanna leave folks with today?

PASCALE (42:51.274)

Yeah, well, in terms of specifically my knowledge of having, you know, the multiples, I think, to my multiple mommies, you know, I'd say, you know, as hard, it's very hard, like I was describing earlier, to, to change your mindset for each baby. And again, like the good that happens one day, the bad that happens the other that same day, possibly to, you know,

something, a setback, it is somewhat the reality for the rest of your time parenting them, you know? And there's a good day, they come home, I mean, with multiple kids in general, but especially kids going through the same developmental stages at the exact same time and the same trials and tribulations. You know, you learn to be like, present for this one.

and present for that one and then present for that one and like really be able to shift those gears. So in some ways it's like the precursor of learning all that. You learn that in the NICU of how to how to deal with that later on.

Leah (44:04.512)

Yeah. And was the having to sort of do that, was the hospital receptive to things that I hear you saying that were really helpful was having the babies in the same room, structuring, working with you to structure the touch times. Those are all things that, you know, if you could pass that on as to advocate for yourself for that to happen.

PASCALE (44:17.218)

Yep.

PASCALE (44:24.078)

Absolutely, absolutely. And keep advocating for pushing for if you want a breastfeed, you know, and it's safe. Keep asking them to do that. Touching, holding, kangaroo, anything you can do. And yes, they will, you know, if it's feasibly possible, they'll they'll, especially with triplets, if they're in a good position, if they are now in a like a stable, they'll have one nurse for the three of them so that they could really just be your, your person and I definitely picked my nurses to be even during the day as well as night to be the consistent ones because that was really important when I went home to know who they were with and to just feel that slightly less stress, you know, feeling with the people I got along with really well. That's something I advocate a lot to my mummies.

Leah (45:10.384)

Mm-hmm.

Leah (45:17.188)

Yeah.

Leah (45:22.852)

Awesome.

Leah (45:26.66)

Thank you so much, Pascale. This is just so enlightening and inspiring.

Leah (45:35.476)

I think for all of you out there who maybe you're sitting by your baby's bedside right now or going between your twins or triplets or quadruplets beds or you're driving to the hospital or you're driving home or you're up in the middle of the night, like I always say that we do as parents, pumping milk or trying to get some extra sleep, Pascale, and I want you to know that you're not alone.

Leah (46:02.628)

and we really look forward to sitting with you again next time. Thank you so much.

PASCALE (46:08.814)

Thank you.