#027 - A Preemie, Her Pediatrician, and 40 Years of Neonatal Care in St. Vincent and the Grenadines (SVG)

Hello friends 👋

In this episode, Mbozu and Shelly-Ann sit down with Dr. Bharati Datta and Dr. Josel Doyle for a conversation that spans four decades and one very full circle moment. Over 40 years ago, Dr. Datta arrived in St. Vincent and the Grenadines from India as the only pediatrician on the island. One of the tiny preterm babies she cared for, weighing barely over a pound at discharge, grew up to become a neonatologist herself. That baby is Dr. Doyle.

Together we explore, Dr. Datta’s journey where she shares what it took to build neonatal care from almost nothing: from working with administration, to working with the mothers who became the original NICU staff,  working towards the Eastern Caribbean's first Baby-Friendly Hospital designation, and the hard-won lessons about ownership, resourcefulness, and community that every clinician working in a low-resource setting needs to hear.

Link to episode on youtube: https://youtu.be/bnYy70ma8D0

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Short Bios:

Dr. Bharati Datta is a  consultant pediatrician at Milton Cato Memorial Hospital in St. Vincent and the Grenadines. Dr Datta was born in India where she completed her medical training and her masters in Paediatrics. She moved to St. Vincent and the Grenadines over 40 years ago where became the only pediatrician for a newly built service area for children. She was instrumental in building the island's neonatal and pediatric services largely from scratch and was part of  the effort that earned the Eastern Caribbean's first Baby-Friendly Hospital designation at the then Kingstown General Hospital (now Milton Cato Memorial Hospital)

Dr. Josel Doyle is a neonatologist and physician coach based in Topeka, Kansas, originally from St. Vincent and the Grenadines. Dr. Doyle was born as a preterm infant and this inspired her to become a neonatologist. She partners with the World Pediatric Project and remains actively engaged in strengthening neonatal care in her home country (St. Vincent and the Grenadines). In addition to global health, her other interests are in the area of physician burnout. With over a decade of experience, she understands firsthand the weight of  responsibility, perfectionism and people pleasing that often accompanies careers in service. This has made her passionate about helping other physicians reclaim their identity beyond their professional goals and move from burnout and over extension to clarity, alignment and intentional living. She does this through her coaching program Intentional Grace MD and her Unplug and Unwind Wellness Retreats

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The transcript of today's episode can be found below 👇

[00:02] Shelly-Ann Dakarai: Hello there, welcome back to another episode of the Global Neonatal Podcast. We are so excited to have you join us for yet another exciting interview, and I'm very excited for this month's episode. Once you hear where it's from, you will not be surprised why. Mbozu, how are you doing today?

[00:21] Mbozu Sipalo: I'm doing really well and equally excited for today's very interesting chat. How are you doing, Shelly-Ann?

[00:30] Shelly-Ann Dakarai: I'm good. I'm starting to warm up, so that's always fun. Today we have another interview, and it's a story about full circles. Decades ago, a young pediatrician from India arrived in St. Vincent and the Grenadines and began caring for the island's children. One of those children was a tiny baby born more than two months early, whose family was told she may not survive.

That baby grew up to be a neonatologist, and she is here with us today — along with the pediatrician who took care of her. We are joined by both Dr. Bharati Datta and Dr. Giselle Doyle. Dr. Bharati Datta is a retired consultant pediatrician who has served in St. Vincent for over 40 years. Dr. Giselle Doyle is a neonatologist originally from St. Vincent and the Grenadines, now based in Topeka, Kansas.

Dr. Doyle, Dr. Datta, welcome to the podcast.

[01:29] Bharati Datta: Thank you, Shelly.

[01:31] Dr. Josel Doyle: Thank you, ladies.

[01:35] Shelly-Ann Dakarai: Josel, maybe I'll start with you. Can you tell us a little about St. Vincent and the Grenadines, for those who may not have heard about it before?

[01:48] Dr. Josel Doyle: St. Vincent and the Grenadines — I like to consider it the most beautiful Caribbean island, and yes, I might be biased. One of the very unique things about us is that we are actually a 32-island state. We have our mainland, which is St. Vincent, and the Grenadines comprises the other 31 islands, each providing their own uniqueness. But I think the one thing that stands out most about us is our hospitality and our drive for hard work.

[02:21] Shelly-Ann Dakarai: Thank you for that overview of St. Vincent and the Grenadines. Giselle, tell us a little about what neonatal care looks like there today. We'll go back and talk about the history, but what does neonatal care look like now?

[02:38] Dr. Josel Doyle: Neonatal care there looks like a small unit that still has a lack of resources, but they are able to save babies who were meant to be here. I like to think that's where my story started — it was also a testimony. Working with the unit in St. Vincent, it's the dedication of the people on the ground. Because at the end of the day, if we don't have dedicated providers — the nurses, the doctors, and all the other team members — showing up to take care of these most fragile babies, given that they don't have half of what we work with in the US or anywhere else in the world, and babies are still able to survive with minimal neurological outcomes... I think that speaks volumes.

It is the most impressive thing when you come from a small island and can go back and see, despite the work that started 40 years ago, the progress that stands today — being able to provide care to the best of their ability with that level of dedication. It's a testimony that transcends neonatology.

[04:02] Shelly-Ann Dakarai: That's true. Dr. Datta, I'll turn to you now. Can you talk about what it was like when you arrived in St. Vincent more than 40 years ago? You're a pediatrician from India who came to St. Vincent by way of Guyana, if I remember correctly. What did care look like when you first got there?

[04:24] Bharati Datta: Shelly, I came from one incredible part of the world to another incredible part of the world. There were similarities — there were sick babies, loads of them: newborns, infants, toddlers, adolescents. I was the only pediatrician.

There were four of us at Kingstown General Hospital, now renamed as MCMA ⚑. There was a surgeon, an obstetrician, a pediatrician, and an internist, plus visiting surgeons from private practice who came occasionally. But that was the entire medical staff for the entire hospital.

I was taken to a three-tiered pediatric building and told, "Well, this is all yours, Dr. Datta. We have an infant mortality rate that's pretty high, and I'm expecting you to work hard to bring it down." And with that, the administration left. It was left to me to figure things out.

There was no NICU (Neonatal Intensive Care Unit), Shelly. There was a little space near the labor room with tiny little cribs stacked together. Healthy babies delivered by their mothers were kept there while the mothers were sent to the postnatal ward to rest and recover. There was a milk kitchen, so babies were fed from time to time and mothers came to see them from time to time.

That was my starting point. I fought many battles in that hospital. One of the very first was implementing rooming-in. I went to the administrator and said, "You don't need to keep healthy newborns away from their mothers. If you keep them close, the bonding will be more effective, it can start earlier, they'll be able to breastfeed and go home sooner. Don't you want that?" We agreed — that was one battle won.

The current NICU took about 20 years to come. We started in that small area near the labor room with four incubators. And what we were looking for then is still what we look for today — Josel, you'll understand: thermoregulation, infection control, nutrition, and respiratory support. That didn't change.

My vision was that newborns need not always spend long stretches in the hospital. If I could teach the mothers how to look after them early, breastfeed them early, send them home early, and do follow-ups — that's what I concentrated on. Meanwhile, the NICU was reserved for the very small ones, of which you were one. But I still relied on the mothers to look after those babies. Your mommy did a better job than I did. Give her a big hug from me when you go back home.

With babies like you — 30 to 32 weeks gestation — and with St. Vincent's beautiful warm temperatures, it wasn't difficult to care for them. By then they were breathing comfortably and kept warm. If I could get the mothers to breastfeed even the little ones, I knew I could send them home. And I concentrated on that for many, many years.

Then came the challenge of infection. It was just like a thoroughfare — people walking in and out of the NICU with no semblance of order. So I went to the administration and said, "I really need a clean space for these babies, and I'm not moving from your office until you provide me with one."

[10:05] Bharati Datta: What I want to emphasize, Shelly, is that a good NICU always runs in tandem with a good administration. Hospital administration has to be NICU-friendly. They must share your vision — it's not just your vision, it's all our vision, and we all want these very small babies to do well. It was really helpful to have a supportive hospital administrator and medical supervisor who helped me create a larger NICU. It wasn't perfect — we didn't have many resources: some incubators, oxygen, some Ryle's tubes. I could place IVs. I could work on infection control. Prevention was a big priority — mothers were taught how to handwash.

My second victory was convincing the hospital administration to let the mothers stay in the postnatal wards and care for their babies for as long as the baby was there.

And then, years later, we armed ourselves with more tools — the WHO Code of Marketing of Breast Milk Substitutes, the Convention on the Rights of the Child, which St. Vincent had already ratified, and the Baby-Friendly Hospital Initiative (BFHI). One thing led to the other. A decade of work later, we became the very first in the Eastern Caribbean to receive the Baby-Friendly Hospital Award. There was a beautiful Picasso replica that stood in the corridor of the maternity ward for years. That's just a snippet of my story.

[12:54] Shelly-Ann Dakarai: So it sounds like when you first arrived, you were the only pediatrician dealing with all ages, with no real NICU — just babies kept in a makeshift space. The first step was getting healthy babies back with their mothers, working on breastfeeding, getting babies home early so they weren't picking up infections. And the next step was securing more space so that the ones who needed to stay could be cared for in a cleaner environment.

[13:17] Bharati Datta: That is correct. And throughout this, I used the mothers liberally because we didn't have trained nurses. The mothers were my best allies. They made excellent apnea monitors. They could sit with their baby, watch the IV line, and feed their babies on time. The only challenges came with the very smallest ones, who were frightening for the mothers to manage. But for babies like yourself — the 32-weekers — there were no real issues, unless there was a surgical problem. And that's another part of the story: we didn't have a pediatric surgeon. We started with just one surgeon with no pediatric surgical training, and for a very long time, newborns with surgical issues suffered greatly — until the World Pediatric Project (WPP) came into the picture and we got our own pediatric surgeon.

[14:53] Shelly-Ann Dakarai: Mbozu, do you have any questions before we continue?

[14:58] Mbozu Sipalo: Dr. Datta, thank you for sharing that snapshot of your career. I was curious about the administrative support for the NICU. You mentioned having good admin support — was that naturally the case, or were there specific strategies you used to get them on board with the changes you were introducing?

[15:36] Bharati Datta: Not all of us agreed at the same time. It took a lot of coercion. Even getting one person on the administration to agree meant that person could then bring others on board. I would work with the medical superintendent, who would then speak with the chief nursing officer and the hospital administrator.

Once I had secured that little space, my next goal was to train nurses on-site via WPP and keep them specifically in the nursery. That turned out to be a very big challenge. The nursing hierarchy particularly didn't like the idea of keeping a cohort of nurses doing only NICU work — they wanted them distributed throughout the hospital. You'd train a NICU nurse and they'd be sent to orthopedics overnight. That battle went on for quite some time, until WPP came out and essentially said the same thing I had been saying all along.

[16:57] Shelly-Ann Dakarai: That's something we've heard from guests everywhere — the instability of NICU nursing staff. In low- and middle-income settings, a lot of it comes from nurses being moved to other units. You train a cohort and then they're transferred, and you have to start from scratch again.

[17:29] Bharati Datta: The same thing happened with junior doctors. I was alone at first, and over the years, junior doctors started coming in. During internship they rotated through departments, but as they rose in the ranks, if they wanted to pursue postgraduate training in pediatrics, I would ask the medical superintendent to assign them to pediatrics for a while so I could train them before they left. It worked sometimes, and sometimes it didn't.

But over time, they learned that if they didn't give in to what I was asking for, I would come back after them. Josel, I believe you'd agree with that.

[18:30] Dr. Josel Doyle: I would agree.

[18:33] Bharati Datta: You might as well give in — she means well. That understanding came to me after years and years of working. We live in a very culturally layered society, no matter what anyone says. Since I was new and didn't fully understand the dialect at first, trust took a while to develop. And that's okay. But when it did, they wouldn't let go. The mothers had to see me — I was their best friend. I remember sitting in the maternity ward with a group of mothers all around me, chatting about how to keep babies warm, how to maintain breastfeeding, helping them with latching, talking about vaccinations. I was one of them — and that's how it works.

[19:44] Shelly-Ann Dakarai: Before we move to Josel's side of this story, I'm curious — how did you make it? You were the only pediatrician for quite some time before you even had junior doctors. I cannot fathom being on all the time. How did you manage in those early days?

[20:07] Bharati Datta: I had a routine. I'd come to the hospital and start in the labor ward — that's where my rounds began. I wanted to know about all laboring and high-risk mothers so I knew what was in store for the day. Then I'd move to Maternity B, take my time, check for infection, check for jaundice, counsel on breastfeeding. Then on to pediatrics for rounds, followed by meetings — because networking was constant. There was UNICEF, PAHO ⚑, the World Health Organization, the Ministry of Health — we needed all of them, so we had to be available.

I'd come back in the afternoon after a bite. If I didn't get away for a proper break, the nurses would take care of me. There was a lady in the small kitchen who looked after the babies' milk and would make fried bananas, chewed plantain, and a cup of tea for me. That's how I survived the day. My last stop was the emergency department ⚑ — I'd see all admissions, then go home and lie down, and the phone would ring.

The first seven years were very difficult — day and night on call. Then junior doctors started trickling in, one by one, saying they wanted to do pediatrics. They went off for training, and here you are — I am in the esteemed company of two very empowered young women. I could take a small pat on the back for that. I had a little contribution in your becoming who you are.

[22:59] Shelly-Ann Dakarai: I want to take it to Josel now. You intersected with Dr. Datta at a very particular moment in time. Tell us the story of your birth, as your parents would have told you — because you obviously wouldn't remember it yourself. Tell us how it intersects with Dr. Datta.

[23:21] Dr. Josel Doyle: The story I've always been told is that my mom went into labor early and ruptured her membranes. When she got to the hospital, they put her in Trendelenburg position. About two days later she started contracting and told the nurses the baby was coming. Because I was her fifth child, she would know. The nurses told her the baby couldn't come yet — she was far too early. A couple of minutes later, during a shift change, she delivered. She always said I was the smallest baby she had ever seen — they described me as tiny as a rat. I went straight to the NICU, and it was a struggle to get me to eat and gain weight.

The story my mother always told was that I was born three pounds, two ounces ⚑, and I left the NICU at one pound, two ounces ⚑. As a neonatologist today, I understand that none of that quite adds up — but the other piece of the story was convincing Dr. Datta to let me go home without having gained any weight, on my birthday no less.

[24:46] Bharati Datta: That's what I remember — I wouldn't let you go. I didn't recall the weight you had dropped to, but with that weight, you were not going home.

[25:00] Dr. Josel Doyle: You were very adamant. You declared I was a ward of the state and there was no way you were sending me home — and as a neonatologist now, I wouldn't have sent me home either. But it took the advocacy of a fellow nurse and my mother stating that if it was God's will for me not to survive, she was okay with me passing at home rather than staying in the hospital — because she had stayed the entire time. She couldn't breastfeed me. I was the only one of her five children she couldn't breastfeed; I was just too small. Through the advocacy of that nurse, Dr. Datta eventually gave in — and I say thank you for that.

They took me home, and within about two weeks I was gaining weight. They literally had to feed me with a spoon because I was still too small to suck properly. I was always wrapped in blankets to stay warm — to the point where my dad almost threw me out the window once, not realizing I was wrapped up inside the sheets. And that was always the story I was told.

[26:25] Bharati Datta: Josel survived in spite of. This is a survival story — in spite of everything.

[26:29] Dr. Josel Doyle: A survival story I am very thankful for.

[26:38] Mbozu Sipalo: I just have a question about your mother. Did she have any clinical background, or was this simply a seasoned mother's instinct?

[26:53] Dr. Josel Doyle: No clinical background at all — just a seasoned mother. It was her and my grandmother who took care of me.

[27:02] Bharati Datta: A seasoned mother and a seasoned grandmother. The story gets complicated — and very interesting — when both are involved. Not surprised at all.

[27:15] Mbozu Sipalo: That's incredible. She took you home, cared for you, and here you are, years later, a neonatologist. An incredible story. Thank you for sharing.

[27:33] Bharati Datta: Your mother used to show me pictures whenever she saw me — this is how she looks, this is what she's doing now. I got to watch you grow up.

[27:43] Dr. Josel Doyle: I always knew Dr. Datta. Everyone knows Dr. Datta when you're from St. Vincent. To this day, when people talk about her, they see her as a little giant — the kindest little giant. I remember from the age of five, going to her office and just knowing, because you can't help but love Dr. Datta. There's an aura about her — graceful and kind — and whenever you meet her, you feel you want to be like her.

For me, the path became clear when I realized how petite she was but how no-nonsense. Growing up with a mother who had the strong personality to convince Dr. Datta to let me leave the hospital — that made an impression. From the age of five, I told my mom, "I want to be just like her. I want to give back what I was given." I never understood why everyone made such a big deal about my birth story until I started understanding it medically — and then I realized it was nothing more than God's grace that babies survived, given the conditions. Forty years ago they didn't have half of what even our current NICU has. And though our NICU still has gaps, it is still further along than what they had back then.

[29:30] Bharati Datta: I think you may have been more mature gestationally than initially estimated — perhaps growth-restricted — which is why your mother's instincts helped so much. But as you correctly said, there are moments when you've done everything and you wonder if this baby will make it. That's when something beyond medicine makes its appearance, in whatever form you believe in. We believe, and we work toward it. Forty years ago, things were really dismal, and to get results out of that, somebody was looking down.

The progression to where things are now is also a kind of miracle — a step-by-step approach. What I've been saying for a long time is: if every outside resource disappeared tomorrow, you should be able to stand on your own and do the same work yourselves. Sustainability is the best kind of resilience. We live in a very unstable environment — climate-related and otherwise — and NICUs are an expensive exercise.

So while we invest in the hospital side of NICU care, a great deal of effort must also go into the community. That is the one thing that is foolproof — it stays with you. Empower the mothers, empower the nurses. They go back home. Make sure those babies will be looked after and ensure quality of life to the best of your ability. Your 600- or 700-gram baby, when she later shows neurological complications, is not going to thank you for your NICU efforts. She is going to come back and ask, "What do I do with this child now?"

So we have to be very aware. Doctors don't usually think about resources — it's always assumed to be someone else's responsibility, like housekeeping. But preventive tools are the most inexpensive and the most lasting. If you take care of that end, the hospital NICU work becomes easier.

[33:01] Shelly-Ann Dakarai: I want to pause here and go a little deeper. You've talked a lot about community, the importance of empowering mothers, and being resourceful in the early days — not settling for "we don't have the resources," but finding a way to work with what you have. Can you tell us more about how you were able to engage the community while also being primarily based at the hospital?

Because when babies go home, they have to be followed by community nurses, and the mothers need to be empowered. Similarly to Josel's story, my sister was born around 28 weeks — though looking back as a clinician now, likely 30 to 32. I remember, as a medical student, listening to her talk about what you had taught her: about the breathing, waiting through the first three days, feeding. They came home with such clear guidance. We talk a lot about family-centered care in this part of the world, but I'm not sure we always execute it as well as it was done then. So I'd love to hear more about how you imparted education to families and also mobilized community nurses as part of the whole healthcare system.

[35:20] Bharati Datta: I think I mentioned earlier that we had a very active Maternal and Child Health (MCH) Committee. Since I was the only specialist, care wasn't fragmented — wherever patients turned, they found Dr. Datta. The MCH Committee was formed within both the hospital and the community, with input from the women's desk, the Ministry of Health, the Ministry of Education, and various other sources, all centered around mother and child.

On the second Tuesday of every month we would meet, share our challenges, and come out of those meetings feeling renewed and purposeful. Every baby discharged from the hospital went home with a note to the district nurse: the baby's risk factors, their weight, what the mother had been taught — including what to do if the baby stopped breathing and how to feed. Within seven days — or sooner, depending on risk factors — every baby was linked to a community nurse, along with a record of their hospital stay.

As part of our MCH Committee's mandate, we also wrote a manual covering high-risk pregnancies, child health emergencies, child abuse, HIV (Human Immunodeficiency Virus), asthma, and a large section dedicated to newborns and breastfeeding — which had its own separate manual. Every district, every community nurse had copies and could refer to them: "If I see a sick little baby, what am I going to do?"

Over time, some of that has dissipated — people change, there are no paper trails, society changes. The MCH Committee may not be as vibrant now, but it remains an important tool. How do you transport a baby born at a birthing center to the NICU without the baby arriving hypothermic? How do you place an IV? What do you use to keep a baby warm if you don't have a warmer ⚑? All of that went into our planning.

A lot has also changed in the broader environment — teenage pregnancies, young women pursuing education and careers, thereby having more complicated pregnancies later. The pressures on pediatricians and obstetricians are only going to grow. The birth rate has declined. We need healthy mothers who give their pregnancies due time and care for their babies. Community health was one big chapter of my life, and I'm so glad I did it that way. Without community nurses pitching in, we would never have received the Baby-Friendly Hospital award.

[40:39] Mbozu Sipalo: Thank you, Dr. Datta, for that snapshot of how important community health workers are and how you incorporated them into newborn care. I had a question about resources. You made a remark earlier that doctors don't think about resources — which is very true. We tend to be patient-centered and don't always think about the broader systems around the patient. Looking back at where you started, and also considering how things have changed, how do you think doctors could begin thinking about resources in a practical way — the low-hanging fruit approaches?

[42:02] Bharati Datta: Youngsters in general aren't very cost-oriented. To get them thinking, I remember an instance in the ICU when I was placing IV lines and the hospital administrator walked in. He said, "You're putting up drips." With him standing over me, I was nervous — one missed, a second missed, a third missed, and only the fourth succeeded. He said, "Those are extremely expensive, Dr. Datta." And that was true.

I was never in a position to go to the Ministry of Health and say our results are poor because of lack of resources. I was too committed to making things work. I said: this is my house, and I'm going to run it. And that is the essence — good housekeeping. When you receive resources or donations, you save some, use some, and account for every bit of it. Then you get more.

When the World Pediatric Project came, and even before that when donations began arriving, using even an extra IV catheter felt like a considered decision. Cost is always assumed to be someone else's problem — but it isn't. The Ministry of Health doesn't have a box of money stashed away somewhere. You have to use your resources wisely. You may have plenty now, but tomorrow may not be the same. A disaster comes, the airport closes for seven days, and you were expecting a piece of equipment or some catheters. Things like that will happen again and again.

It starts with taking ownership. This is my NICU. This is how I'm going to run it. These are the resources I have, and I'm going to spread them across the year. At the midpoint, I'll review and plan for the rest. It starts there.

[45:36] Shelly-Ann Dakarai: Definitely. Ownership first — and from there, everything else follows: thinking about resources, planning, making progress. Without that point person who sees it as their own, it's very hard to move forward.

[46:03] Bharati Datta: And care becomes very fragmented without it. I'll share a story — not about a preterm baby, but about fragmented care. I was working with one of the World Pediatric Project missions and an anesthesiologist asked me about a little girl going in for eye surgery. I sat down and reviewed her journey. She had seen a pediatrician, been referred to an eye surgeon, then to an oculoplastic specialist. Along the way she developed seizures, so she was also seen by neurology, where cerebral palsy and spasticity were identified. From there she was referred to physiotherapy and occupational therapy.

By the time I met her, no one could tell you who this mother and child "belonged to." There was no single point of contact, and the mother was completely lost.

Think about that mother who gets up early, takes a bus, and navigates five different clinics scattered throughout the day. She won't remember what each person said, who each person was, or when she needs to return. Put yourself in her place. Instead of asking "What is my next referral?" ask: "How can I make this easier for this mother?" That's what makes the difference.

[48:20] Shelly-Ann Dakarai: It's interesting — we've covered a lot of ground today, and much of it isn't strictly clinical. But that's a part of care and healthcare that we often overlook. You've talked about taking ownership, thinking in terms of systems, considering the family's day-to-day realities — what it takes to simply get from point A to point B. It's so important to have people like you who think about all of these things and can pass that perspective on to the younger generation.

I wanted to ask about mentorship. What does it mean to you, and what did it look like as you mentored so many people who went on to become pediatricians? I'm one of those people. I wasn't sure I wanted to do pediatrics until I came back home, did my rotations, and you gave me work to do. Like Josel says, when you're in Dr. Datta's presence and you see all that she does, you realize how much a pediatrician can encompass. I thought it was just vaccines and well-child checks. I watched you function as a neurologist, a neonatologist, a community health advocate — and that was part of what made me decide I wanted to be a pediatrician. So I thank you for that. But how do you see mentorship, and how have you been able to mentor people over the years?

[50:23] Bharati Datta: I love it. Right now, at this stage, what I want is to drop an idea and have you run with it. People get older for a reason — experience is all here. I can tell you what will work and what won't. That's a huge part of the way forward.

Having mentored so many youngsters, I'm at a stage where, though I'd like to continue, I also want to slow down and fulfill the commitments I have.

There's another dimension to it as well. We're dealing with a very different generation — impulsive, quick-moving. They get tired of long-term stories and things that take time to bear fruit, even when those things are effective. They want overnight results. And how do you tell someone: this isn't going to happen overnight? Nothing of what you have came about overnight. It took years to build. It might take minutes to dismantle. But if you don't dismantle it, your path forward will be slow and steady — especially in beautiful places like St. Vincent, which is coming into its own.

The medical services have come a long way from where I started. But one must be careful: you don't want to emulate everything you see in the US. You have your own brand of care — something they don't have. Know your strengths and know your gaps. And you have many, many strengths.

[52:50] Bharati Datta: That is what mentoring means to me — to see, enjoy, and build on what you have, rather than emulating someone else simply because they appear to have more. Family-centered care, for instance: families are very close-knit in the Caribbean as well as in India. Times have changed, society has changed, but not as dramatically on the islands as elsewhere. People still look out for each other. When a child falls sick in a community, everyone pulls together.

The youngsters need to recognize what they have. They may be in too much of a hurry to look toward the West, drawn by the technology. But your heart, your soul, the warmth of that community you call home — that cannot be replicated anywhere. When you place your babies in that environment, they grow up into beautiful adults like you.

I'm so glad you both grew up in St. Vincent. And I'm so proud to have been a part of it.

[54:33] Shelly-Ann Dakarai: Mbozu, is there anything you'd like to ask before we start wrapping up?

[54:41] Mbozu Sipalo: Yes — thank you, Dr. Datta. Mentorship truly is key. I was curious to hear from Josel about her mentorship journey — from being a preemie to now being a neonatologist — and how mentorship has shaped you, and how you're navigating mentoring others at your current career stage.

[55:14] Dr. Josel Doyle: My mentorship obviously started with the role Dr. Datta played — not just as my pediatrician, but in having someone who saw what I was capable of before I could see it in myself.

When I left community college, my mentor Mr. Bowman was very instrumental. In my discussions with my parents about medical school, my mother told me: "You can become whatever you want, and if becoming a doctor is what you insist on, we will support you no matter what." I knew my parents couldn't afford medical school, and I wasn't comfortable with that financial burden falling on them. But my mentor advised me: if you're following the vision God has placed in your heart, trust that things will work out. I started with a loan and eventually received a government scholarship through a partnership between St. George's University and St. Vincent. That propelled my medical education.

And alongside that came the example of Dr. Datta — this petite woman with the biggest impact on everyone she has encountered. To this day, everyone knows Dr. Datta. She is still actively caring for children today. Looking at myself — 11 years in as an attending — I sometimes wonder how I'll sustain it.

[57:22] Bharati Datta: I'll tell you how. I've given you a little bit of my heart and a little bit of my soul. When you mentor the youngsters, that's what you pass on — a bit of your heart and a lot of your soul. It transcends into your patient care. That feeling of warmth — remember that.

[57:47] Dr. Josel Doyle: And I love that you said that, because that was exactly what I was about to share. It came through encountering other people like me — people who reached out after finding my story on social media. I remember a young woman referred to me by a colleague — originally a physician trained in Malaysia, now in the US, needing an observership to re-enter medicine here. Instead of having her find somewhere to stay, I offered her a room in my home while she came to the hospital. She spent a month with me and went on to match into residency.

The thing is, I never really considered myself a mentor. I show up, do my job, and leave — but I show up with a level of passion and dedication because of what Dr. Datta instilled in me. Seeing this woman literally build medicine from the ground up, and continuing to pave the path to this day with WPP — that's what I carry forward.

I also recognized that if I want to keep showing up with that kind of dedication for 40 years — doing it with joy and a smile, the way Dr. Datta does, where people still just want to hug her in gratitude — I need to practice medicine differently. Medicine as it exists now doesn't always serve the physician. It drains us. So for me, watering the seeds Dr. Datta plants in everyone required taking time for myself, believing in my own capacity, and channeling that into how I engage with patients and colleagues.

That was actually what started my journey with World Pediatrics — connecting with people like Shelly-Ann who have been working within the system. My path was different: I never did anything back home. I always told myself I was going back to St. Vincent — I promised myself I would never stay in the US. But God had a bigger plan, insisting that I build experience and networks here first, because the impact I hope to make requires that foundation. Being able now to go back to St. Vincent, build relationships, and truly appreciate what I take for granted in the US — that gives me a level of fulfillment that, when I return here, makes me work even harder. It keeps me patient-centered, committed to family-centered care, and motivated through the hard days.

[01:02:13] Bharati Datta: That was a sweet answer. Shelly, am I allowed to ask you a question?

[01:02:23] Shelly-Ann Dakarai: Absolutely.

[01:02:25] Bharati Datta: What about you?

[01:02:27] Shelly-Ann Dakarai: How do I see mentorship? I went to a conference some years ago where someone spoke at length about peer mentorship — the idea being that we tend to think of a mentor as this guru figure who takes you under their wing. And while those relationships are important and we all need them, she highlighted how much the people at your own level can also offer, and how rarely we acknowledge that.

At the time, I was barely an attending and still figuring myself out. I still felt like an imposter many days. I didn't feel I had much to offer anyone. But then I came to realize: it's not about you — it's about helping the other person. You can be a mentor simply by being a peer. That's how I see mentorship — seeing what the other person might not be able to see in themselves, and trying to help bring that out.

That's what Dr. Datta did for me when I didn't want to be a pediatrician. She put me in charge of the NICU and Maternity B — the newborn ward — for the first half of my internship. She said, "I need you up there leading that team." She saw it in me and called it out before I could see it in myself. And now I try to do that for others, whether they're at my level or below — just paying attention and showing up.

[01:04:30] Bharati Datta: Sometimes it just takes somebody on the outside to say: you can do it. You have it in you. That's all it takes — especially when someone is feeling defeated and saying "we don't have this, we don't have that." But you have a lot of things you're simply not using.

[01:05:06] Shelly-Ann Dakarai: Here we are. Mbozu, what's your view of mentorship?

[01:05:08] Mbozu Sipalo: Mentorship can take many forms — the peer-to-peer kind, and also the more traditional kind where there's a significant gap in experience but the mentor pours into you personally. But I also think that in this information age, passive mentoring is real too — observing the people around you, reading about them, gaining insights from how they've lived and worked.

Of course, nothing quite replaces the personal touch. And seeing how the three of you have interacted in this conversation is a beautiful reminder of how special it is to have that personal dimension — how Dr. Datta has influenced both of you in very individual ways. She knows you by name. She knows your stories. You cannot put a price tag on that. And this has been a mentoring session for me as well, as a passive observer.

This is one of those conversations that could go on and on, so on that note — thank you all so much for making the time. I'm sure our listeners are very happy to hear your story, Dr. Datta, Dr. Josel, and Shelly-Ann as well.

[01:07:19] Bharati Datta: I hope so.

[01:07:24] Mbozu Sipalo: Before we let you go, we usually end by asking how listeners can connect with you — LinkedIn, email, or otherwise. How would you like our listeners to reach you?

[01:07:50] Bharati Datta: I'm not a social media person, so I'd say by email. That's all I can offer.

[01:08:04] Mbozu Sipalo: Wonderful — we'll add your email to the show notes. And Dr. Josel?

[01:08:19] Dr. Josel Doyle: First, I want to thank all of you for this opportunity — not only to hear my mentor's story, but to share this space with each of you. Welcome to my colleague Shelly-Ann, and of course to my mentor, and to you, Mbozu — I met you a year ago, and being able to have this conversation means a great deal. The value it adds is lasting. You can find me on all platforms — LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok. Search for Dr. Josel Doyle and you will find me.

[01:09:06] Bharati Datta: I take no responsibility for the social media presence — she did that on her own. Thank you, Shelly. Thank you, Giselle. Thank you, Mbozu. Thank you for having me and listening to my ramblings. I'd like to end with a little story.

There is a tree. It bears fruit, the fruit drops, and the seeds fall out. Not all seeds will sprout — but the ones that stay and keep looking toward the light, those are the ones that make it. The light helps them.

You are both those two seeds that sprouted, looked toward the light, and kept growing. And I am the old tree, offering you comfort and shelter.

Thank you so much.

[01:10:25] Shelly-Ann Dakarai: Thank you. That was beautiful. There is nothing more to say after that. And to our listeners, thank you for joining us for another episode of the Global Neonatal Podcast. Let's go further together for newborn care. See you next time.

[01:10:32] Bharati Datta: Thank you. Bye-bye.

[01:10:33] Dr. Josel Doyle: Thank you.